[Date Prev][Date Next][Date Index]

Birders of all persuasions

Is it a matter of courage? 

I read enough of this kind of commentary in the public forum section of the SLTribune must we do it here on the birdnet?

I responded to KC. he was the one who asked the question.

Like you said this is a bird line to share birding information. A place for people of all faiths, hopefully ethnic backgrounds and economic backgrounds to share a common hobby. Think about it this is one of the few hobbies that for under a hundred dollars someone can get started and find success. (I'm still using my $70.00 binoculars I got several years ago) and what about the education you get from the birds and their habitat.

 Only in Utah would religion have to come up and for some be an issue. I have met many very friendly helpful birders while out birding. I have no Idea their religious beliefs. I do know how they feel about birds though the subject has always been birds, not once has the subject of religion come up. 

I applaud those who had the decency to hold back and not address this comment on the bird net I'm sure there were many who felt tempted. It goes to show the integrity of the birders who participate. 

Utah is the greatest place on Earth to live for many reasons and has many great people of all faiths and backgrounds living here. Many are good friends of mine.

 Mormons are peculiar people with different Ideas and Morals and we need to expect people to occasionally question our beliefs. I am never offended when I am questioned about my beliefs. I am always excited to interact with all people. Like I told KC  "As a practicing Mormon believing in the principles of my faith I want to associate with as many people as I can from all religions to dispel the notion that Mormons are unfriendly and intolerant of anyone who is not a Mormon." 

Birders rest assured if I meet you out birding the topic will be birds and where's the best place to find them.

Maybe we should all leave the state and restore the habitat for the birds or at least stop building highways and homes that take away their habitat. 

Happy Birding Steve Coleman

 >>> David Wheeler <dwheeler@deq.state.ut.us> 08/10/01 12:16PM >>>
Will no one have the courage to respond openly?

Are we as a community going to sit back in silence and not address the
issue brought
about by the posting of young K.C.'s e-mail query?  Shame on us.

I realize the birdnet is not the appropriate forum for sociopolitical /
socioreligious
discussions, but the fact is, that line has been crossed.  And when it
was, there were
people out there who were offended.  I know several myself.  And if that
transgression of
the unspoken agreement to avoid "sensitive" subjects in "polite" company
goes
unanswered, we are all guilty of complicity, turning our head.

I had hoped someone else would respond, so I wouldn't have to.  I am
disappointed that
no one has.  It seems to me it would have been appropriate.

I do not believe that K.C. meant any offense by his e-mail of the 7th.
In fact, I found
most of it benign and was amused by the unexpected subject matter, even
though the
scenario was described a little too starkly (e.g. clearly there are many
LDS birders in Salt
Lake County too).  But the following two sentences sent chills down my
spine:   "Also
why do people complain about the mormon problem, and live here. Love it,
or
leave it."

Wow.

As I have said, I do not believe that young Mr. Childs understood what
effect of his
words might have on the minority (one is tempted to write it "the
Minority") of people in
this state who are not members of "the Church."  He is young yet and
perhaps unexposed
to some of the issues that his words conjure.  But please consider this:

    1.  This is the United States of America, a land blessed with the
beautiful concept that
our consciences and words are to be respected enough to be free.  Our
system is based
on the idea that opinions about social conditions, whether aggravated by
religious tensions
or not, should be allowed to be expressed.  It is the cornerstone of
democracy that we
discuss issues of concern in order that we might change them or adjust
to them in ways
nonviolent and non-destructive.  How else might people come to
understand the
perspectives of others?
    Of course, I do not mean to imply that people should be rude about
expressing their
opinions.  There are limits of decency even within legally-protected
speech.  No one
should expect to be respected if they shout anti-Semitic or anti-Mormon
slogans in a
manner that attempts to offend rather than enlighten.  I think we all
know the difference,
even if we might all draw the line a little differently.

    2.  As to why people live anywhere within the United States that
they do, I would
suggest it is because they can.  There are innumerable personal and
economic reasons
whey a person, LDS or otherwise, might live here.  In the same way,
there are
innumerable reasons why people of the LDS faith might chose to live, or
find themselves
living, OUT of Utah, perhaps in portions of the country where the
community consensus
is against their religious views.  We all have the right to live where
we choose in this
country.  And to say, "love it or leave it," implies that we have to
love it to stay.  It is a
fundamental affront to a person's conscience to express it that way.
Also, all too often in
the painful history of this wonderful country, and this wonderful world,
for that matter, it
has been the case that the phrase "love it or leave it" has been a
threat.  It can be
rewritten, without much of a stretch, as "conform or get out."  And
that, my friends, is a
block put up against any attempts to reform whatever place or
organization or society we
are talking about.  Whatever happened to, "love it and help it grow in
ways wonderful"?
A parent doesn't give up and leave a child simply because the child has
problems.  The
good parent stays and tries to mould the child into something to love
even more, or to
grow to accept the things in the child the parent finds difficult to
accept.  Likewise with Utah, or
whatever other portion of this planet we speak of.  There are problems
we all know of
even in "Zion."  There are roads to fix, garbage to pick up, poor to
feed, communities to
bring together in a way that is dignified to all.  It does not mean this
isn't a wonderful place
to live.  I think it is.  But to say "love it or leave it" implies a
nonconstructive approach to
living, here or anywhere else.

    3. Anyway, it is different to condemn a group within a specific
circle of friends, who
perhaps know the parameters and qualifications of your thoughts, than it
is in a public
forum like a birdnet.  Once an idea is floated publicly that threatens
the dignity of a
portion of that public, it must be addressed.  It becomes a part of us
all.  We are
perceived by ourselves and others to have accepted that idea if we do
not respond
against it.  And thus it becomes a shame upon all of us.  That is why I
had to write this.

I hope my thoughts, hastily penned and publicly shared, have helped to
enlighten rather
than confound this issue.  I also hope that my words bring together
rather than break
apart the wonderful birding community that is growing year to year
within this state,
irrespective of religion.

Happy birding!

- --David S. Wheeler


P.S.  K.C.,  I realize I have taken your simple words and expanded upon
them beyond
what you probably had in mind, and I apologize for that.  I know that I
have all too often
put my own foot in my mouth too, and I may be accused of doing so now.
I hope I
haven't been unkind or unfair, as that was not my intent at all.  Take
care.

- --DSW

>>> KC Childs <utahguy058@yahoo.com> 08/07/01 11:24PM >>>
I am not one to be controversial, but I am interested in the subject of
mormons in Utah. I just was wondering why it is that Utah County Birders
are mormons, but so far am yet to meet one birder from Salt Lake County
that is mormon? Are there mormon birders in Salt Lake County. I have met
awesome birders from Salt Lake County, they just don't seem to be
mormon? I am facsinated by the serious decline of mormons in Salt Lake
City. Also throughout the northern part of SL valley. Have lived in
cities in Utah that are not prodomitly mormon, such as Salt Lake ( Rose
Park area ) and Vernal. Both having less then 50% of the population
mormon. Also why do people complain about the mormon problem, and live
here. Love it, or leave it. I am not trying to be rude, just a subject I
am facinated with. Also what are the bird communities in the rest of the
state? Well I would
love feedback.
KC Childs

________________________________________________________

"Utah Birds" web site: http://www.utahbirds.org
To unsubscribe from the birdnet:
  Send a e-mail  to:     birdnet-request@utahbirds.org
  In message body, type:                   unsubscribe
________________________________________________________

------------------------------