Initiative 1 and Hunting Birds or Other Animals

["M. H. Wallace" <pooder at xmission dot com>]

I am going to add my two cents to this discussion regarding Initiative 1 
and hunting.  This is in response to Mr. Avery's comments, and in 
support of Mr. Wood's response to Mr. Avery.

First off, the response from Mr. Avery to Mr. Wood is obviously one of 
anger, and done so quickly, as evidenced by the numerous spelling errors 
and general sloppiness, that it appears to be from rage, not from sound 
reasoning.  It is also threatening.  He will do it 'till his "hands 
bleed," pounding his chest that he is a presence to be dealt with.  Mr. 
Avery's comments are just the sort of response I would expect from a 
hunter who feels threatened.  It is a "how dare you question me" sort of 
diatribe.  I had begun to sense that Mr. Avery was a respectable member 
of the birding community.  However, the response I have witnessed, that 
is part of this e-mail below, makes me question that, and makes me think 
otherwise of Mr. Avery. 

I will say that yes hunters do pay good sums of money to engage in their 
sport.  As a personal value, I do not find hunting any animal with the 
purpose of killing it to be good sport.  Hunting to view and take 
pictures is something I can revel in.  I disagree with Mr. Avery's claim 
that birdwatching is the same thing as hunting, it is not.  Further, 
hunting may be just an excuse to get away from the city.  If so, why not 
leave the rifle at home and just be man, or woman, enough to admit that 
is what you really want to do.  If one is so insecure as to need the 
excuse of taking a gun just to not look somehow weak, then that is a 
personal problem best dealt with by good inner-reflection and perhaps 
professional therapeutic counseling.  Try joining a mens, or womens, 
group and find that there are other like minded people, who are strong 
without the machismo need to have a gun.  The gun becomes just a 
crutch.  Maybe, it is the hunters who care so little that they refuse or 
otherwise won't acknowledge as much.  Did it ever occur to Mr. Avery 
that at least some of use make a choice to not hunt with a gun, we don't 
want to.  I for one have no problem admitting that I do not like hunting 
with the thought of killing something.  I find that very distasteful.  I 
do however, revel in the thought of viewing wild birds, no matter if it 
is in an urban setting or in the great wilds of Utah.  I too enjoy 
getting away from the hustle and bustle of city life.  And I do not need 
a gun to do that.

Mr. Avery can disagree as much as he likes.  Hey, he can even send me a 
threatening e-mail if it suites his fancy.  That would however further 
erode my opinion of him and his thoughts on hunting.  As long as what is 
hunted is consumed or otherwise put to good use I don't have a problem 
with hunting per se.  Leaving a carcase to rot is sinful in my view.  
Further, I strongly question and disagree with the mentality that humans 
are masters of the Earth and have dominion over all other animals.  No, 
to the contrary, all animals have a right to life and are worthy in and 
of themselves.  Their worth is not determinable in terms of value to 
humans.  All animals, including humans, have value in and of 
themselves.  In closing, I will say that while I have made the choice to 
not hunt with a gun, I am not anti-hunting as far as other people making 
the choice to hunt.

Sincerely, and Respectfully,

Matthew Wallace.


Richard Wood wrote:

> These are the kind of people that are out there in the world.
>
> I hate to do this, but Mr. Avery has given me little choice of how 
> else to handle it.
>
> Richard
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Avery" 
> <tanager@timaverybirding.com>
> To: "Richard Wood" <rwoodphd@msn.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> > lol.  hahahha.  Do I know how scary it is.  If you are afraid of hunters
> > shooting, then you maybe shouldnt be where they are hunting when they 
> > are
> > hunting.  And no I don't think it is scary, becuase I have been 
> > around it my
> > whole life.  My family has over 60 years of Duck Hunting experience, 
> > and never
> > once have we ever shot at  each otehr or other people.  In fact, 
> > where we hunt
> > ducks, you won't see other people, for the main reason that we go to 
> > great
> > lengths to get away form people. did it ever occur to you that 
> > hunting is the
> > same thing as birdwatching, its an excuse to get away from the city, 
> > and enjoy
> > nature, but how would you nknwo, you care to little to learn about 
> > it. And I
> > wont go away, because I am nto that kind of person.  Everytime you 
> > email me
> > concerning somethin,g I will email back till my hands bleed.  Plus 
> > when it
> > comes to Utah and birds, its gonna be hard to get around anything I 
> > say or do,
> > for I am a presence in teh birding community.
> >
> > Salt Lake City, UT or Beloit, WI
> > http://www.timaverybirding.com
>
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